Readers say scanlators are greedy

Readers say scanlators are greedy

UPDATE: Someone is spamming this link on mangafox. It’s not us spamming it. This post is really old and we gave up on Mangafox’s wrongdoings many months ago.


This is a story about ignorance and about fighting this ignorance.

The scanlators’ community is getting to a point of no return, due to the fact that we’re so little in number, therefore powerless in delivering a message. It’s a miracle there’s at all people working on translating the unavailable manga, and probably nobody notices how precarious such “magic” is.

I’m not asking you to join us as a member.
I want to ask you to support us when someone attacks us unreasonably or has no idea where scanlation comes from. I’d like you to be proactive and make sure every single person thinking manga aggregators translate the manga, learn who are the scanlators. Show them this or other posts to enlighten them a bit. Be “gentleman” and reply carefully to their posts. If you are a scanlator, bring some proof, and still act like a gentleman, or a gentlewoman, of course.

You’ll call me monotone, but what’s spreading ignorance is MangaFox, a site several times bigger than scanlation itself and now 876th biggest site in the world. Here, look where is their suite-office at 1133 Broadway, Manhattan, NY 10010, USA, that they pay through illegal low quality manga hosting, fake premium accounts and by selling unlicensed merchandise.
I’ll make it more clear: without doing anything, they probably make a hundreds of thousands dollars a year of earnings. Probably enough money to buy tons of licenses and give them to us so we can scanlate legally. Of course, that will never happen.

How is MangaFox offending the hands that feed the site? By brainwashing the users into thinking MangaFox is the source of the translations, and that’s through the watermark on bottom, by limiting the power scanlators have over their releases, with moderators that side with the admins and cut the discussions.
Let’s see some examples.

Prozess, one of the most popular translators in the scene, working for several groups and on several manga, just the other day quit because readers called him greedy for not allowing the releases on MangaFox, after releasing a ton of massive chapters altogether. That’s because they are “MangaFox only readers”. What the hell is that?
I kind of support what Prozess decided to do, though I think it could have gone out with a more gentle BANG. One could say “he’s easy to piss off” now, but, putting things altogether, every scanlator always thinks about quitting, because it’s a really time-taking hobby without much reward. Prozess brought it to an extreme, and ended up making it probably too important. For a translator, who can easily read Japanese, recognition is all he gets. Translators quit easily, when they discover that the people they hoped would praise them, act spoiled by wanting a corporation to make money upon his groups’ and the mangaka’s work.
This is a great loss for scanlation, and, knowing how incredibly rare translators are, the void will be palpable. We’re talking about big popular series, that you most likely read.

Going on, Iris Zero is a manga series scanlated by Simple-Scans:
Again, ignorant readers think MangaFox is the source of the translations, and that, since it was removed from MF, it must have been dropped! These people don’t even realize where the translation came from.
That’s whole pages of laughs.

Let’s move onto us. I usually fight quite well this kind of issue, because I have the tools to do so. Yet, sometimes… my own tools are called items to make money through scanlation! The same software I release as open-source.
So, yeah. On MangaFox they say we earn money. Which is so far from true, I even take coding jobs to be able to afford this server. And I give away my software, which is completely legal software, unlike the scans. And no, we don’t use Adsense either (we actually were banned from it because of lolicon discussions…)
This actually pained me a lot (they saying we are making profit, not the lolicon thing), because my pocket money flows out, while I don’t have a job and release industrial-level software for free. Maybe I’m stupid, or I just care too much about how people read manga.

FoOlRulez, and many of our friendly groups, have already asked removal of the manga. Initially it was just us playing rebellious and I didn’t suggest others to do so. The situation has worsened and I’ll plainly say now, if you are a scanlator, remove your manga from MangaFox. They are a true company, and we shouldn’t get involved with them.
If your readers complain, tell them you have a futuristic manga reader, and they will love you long time, because it’s that much more awesome to read from it.

If you are a reader, come to scanlators. We’re not just amateurs, and we’re really happy if you ask us help in finding the best quality releases. Populate our IRCs, spam in our forums and in our blogs, ask us anything. That’s how we roll. And survive.

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188 Responses to “Readers say scanlators are greedy”

  1. about boats says:

    fits somewhat, but not quite. like a small t-shirt on a dog, i guess. people who can’t read long books won’t get it. still a good story in and of itself, i hope.

    In an ocean, far, far away, there are a few haphazardly scattered, but densely populated islands. A small profession has developed around transporting people from one island to another by the means of wind-powered rafts. They call themselves Gondoliers.

    Forbidden from taking monetary payment by tradition, it is customary that small gifts would be made to them for their service. The life of Gondoliers is a harsh and hazardous, having to safely navigate dangerous tides and deal with unpredictable winds on a daily basis. You might wonder why anybody would choose to do this, given the alternatives available to those with such skills. One would have steadier employment as a fisherman, and higher pay for captaining the gargantuan cargo rafts. But for being able to experience sea, a Gondolier’s lifestyle is unmatched. Technology has lowered the barrier to entry, with the advent of compasses and gasoline engines.

    However, it has also brought new troubles. A young Entrepreneur, seeing the yet-unexploited market for transportation, designs and constructs several steam-powered passenger ferries and schedules them to run on the routes with the most traffic. Large enough to hold several hundred people at once, these powerful and efficient ships do not require any skilled crew, and as a result, the Entrepreneur was able to charge a pittance for his service. Over time, many a traveler who once had to rely on the Gondoliers instead buy a ticket from the Entrepreneur.

    The reactions of the Gondoliers were divided. Some were angry, that a young upstart would be taking away their business. Some reserved judgement on the matter. Others thought of the times when there were passengers left waiting on the docks and thought it was good idea. The Passengers enjoyed the superior speed and regular schedules offered by the Entrepreneur. As for the Entrepreneur himself, the money was rolling in and he had no worries.

    The reactions of the Gondoliers were divided. Some were angry, that a young upstart would be taking away their business. Some reserved judgement on the matter. Others thought of the times when there were passengers left waiting on the docks and thought it was good idea. The Passengers enjoyed the superior speed and regular schedules offered by the Entrepreneur. As for the Entrepreneur himself, the money was rolling in and he had no worries.

    But problems soon arose. Fewer and fewer people became Gondoliers every year, and more and more of those who were Gondoliers chose to work elsewhere or retire. Why was this so? So many Passengers preferred to use Entrepreneur’s service, that there were few left for the Gondoliers. The Gondoliers saw that they were unneeded, and acted accordingly.

    The Passengers did not notice this at first. Most of them, after all, did not use the Gondoliers’ service very frequently. On the occasions they did, they only used it for places the ferries didn’t reach. And perhaps they experienced the somewhat longer wait in calling for a Gondolier. “But the waits were quite long to begin with”, the Passengers reasoned, “and maybe it would be different in the future?”

    The Passengers’ hope was not wrong. It was different in the future. There were no Gondoliers, period.

    The Passengers, in the beginning, panicked. They could not go where they wanted, for the Entrepreneur’s ferries only sailed on the routes with the most Passengers. Where were the friendly faces, the quaint boats that graced the docks? Where had the Gondoliers gone?

    The Passengers then turned to the Entrepreneur. “Help us! Change your schedules! We need to go there!”
    But the Entrepreneur simply shrugged and said no. For he knew, from calculating beforehand, that he would lose money if his ferries were not full at each port he stopped at. If he even tried add a few more destinations to the routes his ferries were on, he would soon be bankrupt.

    And so the Passengers despaired. They could not do anything about it. As the amount of places visited by boats diminished, the amount of Passengers traveling diminished as well. Then one day, as the Entrepreneur was looking at his monthly ledgers, he exclaimed “Why, with this amount of Passengers, I’ll start losing money next month!”

    He promptly scrapped all his ferries and terminated all his employees, some of whom received an almost-fair retirement bonus. And with the remainder of the profits in his genuine leather suitcase, he departed and lived happily ever after. As for the Passengers? They started long-distance swimming courses, or so I’ve heard.


  2. Mithrandir says:

    You guys are awesome, and as I say to Prozess: “I am only a leacher, and scanlators groups such as “Black Wing” and yourselves have brought us great quality manga because you want to, so you are in all right to stop whenever you want and for whatever reason you want to, I just sincerely give you my thanks, nevertheless I hope you could continue to brings us all that scanlations that have gave us lots of fun”. I know my grammar sucks; I just hope you can feel my support even thought it doesn’t mean much. “I wish you the best”

  3. pizzapicante27 says:

    Wow, I always thought MangaFox was like one of the most decent manga reader sites out there, this truly comes as a shock as Im traditionally a reader on their site.
    BTW a question: whats your take on sites like The Evil Empire or MangaTraders that also host your releases but in download form?

    • woxxy says:

      Honestly I don’t know, because I am just acting after discussing with other scanlators. There was a time when MangaTraders did something funny I think, but right now it’s probably more of an old story.

      We’ve always been fine with others hosting our translations and the manga, because most sites actually aren’t able to create decent revenue or influence the community. Also, by being closed in ourselves, our releases will reach to nowhere.

      We’re concerned with MangaFox for many, many reasons instead. The point I made in this post is just one or two of those.

    • highwind says:

      Back when I read manga every day, I used MangaTraders quite frequently to get releases. In my opinion, they are fairly similar to MangaFox with what they do. However, the most important difference between them is that MangaTraders do not try to diminish the credit to the scanlators:

      – They explicitly name and link to (well, the mangaupdates page of) the scanlation group of the series
      – They do not modify the images (i.e. no watermarks, etc)
      – The .zip files that you download retain the name of the scanlation group
      – They do not have stores that sell illegal merchandise (as far as I know), and source their revenue from advertising and donations only

      I mean, sure, going to their site reduces the number of people that go to the scanlator’s sites, but this is the internet and probably EVERYTHING is mirrored somewhere. As long as they’re not making money off of our hard work, or trying to take credit for work we’re doing, I have no qualms about it.

  4. pizzapicante27 says:

    Ph and whats the name of the series that appeared in the covers of the latest SoraNoOto, could you tell please?

  5. Anonymous says:

    Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same way towards mangareader as towards mangafox? I never liked reading things on mangafox because the site felt sloppy and bothered me for other reasons, but I like to use mangareader basically as a list of when everything I read has updated without going to the respective scanlator sites every day or two. I usually go to the scanlator sites anyways, though…

    • woxxy says:

      I think aggregators are necessary. I am not saying not to use MangaFox, but that you should make people aware where the releases come from.
      MangaReader tried to involve money in scanlation to get “exclusives”, which made many scanlators pale.

      Basically every aggregator is there to make money, so use whatever fits you best.

      Anyway, the best site for updates, trusted by every scanlator because mostly neutral:

      And, if you want to read releases while supporting scanlators:

      • scizzer12 says:

        Wow, just tried out batoto. Their reader is no foolslide, but at least the images are high quarity.

      • Wertyxious says:

        I always use to see what new releases are available, from there go to the scanlator’s page and download/read there. I would like to encourage everyone to do the same. It’s just a few clicks more but at least you’re not supporting those assholes at MangaFox.

  6. NOAH HAS RAGE!!!!! says:


    I am displeased. Batoto seems like a very good idea, do they have a FB page we can start to like and get it viral?

    Also woxxy your new reader is awesome lol!

  7. pizzapicante27 says:

    What they killed Kanokon again!? damn I was really hoping it would be finished at laast.

  8. pliky says:

    Wait. While I agree there are issues with mangafox, I don’t think it’s fair to say they take credit for scanlations. Firstly, they keep the scanlator credit pages. And secondly, I have yet to come across a watermark claiming they created it! In fact, on the bottom of each image it says “This image is hosted at, we take no credit for the creation or editing of this image. All credit goes to the appropriate parties involved in the creation or editing of this image.”

    There are issues, sure, they’re making money. But don’t accuse them of something that is patently untrue.

    • woxxy says:

      I’ll just make more clear how I meant it.

      The excuse of the watermark on bottom is a stunt to advertise themselves, and there is no need at all to add that line, because once it’s out of their domain, it’s not their problem anymore. Actually, it gives them only more problems if there’s their URL on every single page.
      It’s also a slap in the face of scanlators, who consider watermarking a taboo. There’s a reason why we make a separate credits page.

      They took credit for the hosting. And they put it in every single page. So that’s taking credit, a lot of it, and it gets them tons of frequent visitors.

      Let’s then consider the aftereffects, which is what we want to analyze, instead of analyzing my words or their words: people thanking MangaFox for hosting. Examples are in this post itself.
      MangaFox knows perfectly that most people have no idea where the scanlation comes from, and putting the URL in their face every page is… brainwashing, as I said maybe properly. They will remember MangaFox, not who actually scanlated.

      If it worked as you said and people were consistent with reading credits, then we wouldn’t be in the current situation. Yet, when it’s on cognitive level, we must put a bit apart the logics, and notice that the first thing eyes see is the URL, because they want to get to the site with that image.
      A bit like the ads on the web, they just cut from their mind all the unneeded material.

      • pliky says:

        Are you saying people OTHER than those on the mangafox site will ever see the images? How’s it ever going to leave their domain? I mean, unless someone goes through it page by page saving the images. I’m sure anyone that dedicated would’ve downloaded it off google or something. If the watermark does advertise mangafox, surely it’s advertising only to people already reading it. Like Mcdonalds signs in Mcdonalds. Poor potato farmers. Not even a credit sign. (Sure, they’re paid, but then they’re doing it to get paid.)

        And yes, they’re taking credit for the hosting. And well, they’re hosting it.

        Yes, people are thanking them for hosting it. Because they have. It’s not like people are thanking them for scanlating it.
        And the watermark? Before I read your post, I hadn’t even noticed it. And I’ve been reading manga on mangafox for nearly two years. I mean, it’s possible that I’m in the minority, and the ignorant masses when reading through scan that little line of text on the bottom but completely miss that often colourful scanlator credit page with lolis on it.

        So on the cognitive level, people will start associating mangafox with being able to easily read large amounts of manga. Which is true. But then that’s what aggregators do. Unless you’re against aggregators completely. And as I said, who’s going to see the watermark except those already on mangafox? They’ve already gotten to the site with the image.
        In my experience, a lot of manga is interesting and good to read, but not so good that I’d go find the file and download it. Specially when it has something like 30-40 chapters. I wouldn’t have read it if it wasn’t on an aggregator.
        Batoto is great. The only problem is a lack of titles. If batoto get’s a larger variety of titles, then people will naturally leave mangafox and gravitate towards it, since it’s a better reader.

        Personally, the only way I can be exposed to most of the manga and scanlation groups out there is through an aggregator. And I resent some person below claiming I looked up the site from past chapter credits. I’ve been here since there were Mcdonalds scans of Hayate no Gotoku on the reader here, becoming a massive spoiler about Athena. I was impressed how you guys took it upon yourselves to do the whole missing section of Hayate quickly, so I stayed. And I’ve kept up with (some of) your releases ever since. Specially Tona-Gura.

        Finally, I’m not saying I think what mangafox has done is good. I mean, reading posts on how when moderators take down scans as requested by the scanlators, NOEZ staff puts it back on makes me mad. The otakushop makes me mad. Yes, they exploit the mangaka and scanlation groups to make money, which is inexcusable. But I don’t agree with the claim that they in any way attempt to take credit for the making or scanlating of the manga. Sure, some idiots on the forum think so. But then there are idiots everywhere. It’s like taking everyone on forums seriously and thinking they represent the forum creator.

        Or maybe I’m completely missing the point and can’t recognise the fact that everyone else on mangafox worships the creator of manga NOEZ and scorns those who believe in the fictional existence of scanlation groups.

        • woxxy says:

          I think at a certain point it works by advertising rules. And advertising, which is way beyond taking credit and is what MF is doing, results in brainwashing.

          The ignorants on MF are many and most likely the majority. The site is just that large, it’s epicly large. Even if you are in a minority who never noticed the ads, the credits on bottom probably boosted MF’s visits just as much if not more than their super-aggressive advertising, loading on every Google AD if you have a manga-related site, for the past 3 years. “Read FREE manga!”
          The watermark is seen when people rehost the image. One ecclatant example is on 4chan’s /a/, where one thread on three contains one (resulting in rage by the inhabitants). But just go through forums about manga in every language, and you’ll find these images.

          And they don’t boost the scanlators’s visits: almost the totality of the readers aren’t coming from people reading on aggregators, and more than 3/4 of readers are coming from, while the rest of readers just have our page bookmarked or Google our group name. Yet, it’s still “returning” people.
          The fact that aggregators help us getting visits is a myth. You can do your checks since I keep stats public. All we get from aggregators is visits due to the fact that we removed our projects from MF, and people who Google us have been before on mangaupdates.

          For your last paragraph: it’s exactly what is happening, though more realistic. People believe scanlators are endorsed by MF. If it’s not on MF, then it means it’s been dropped. One example is the Iris Zero one, but it happened for some of our projects as well in a similar fashion.
          Even if MF doesn’t explicitly take credit, people visiting the site will just give it for obvious after a while.
          I’m wrong with saying it’s the watermark and general behavior by mods/admins? Then it must be something else, because this is abnormal. It doesn’t just happen that there are so many ignorants even if there are credits pages.

        • Anonymous says:

          the way how they actually take credit is irrelevant, the effect on readers however is relevant. just look through the forum posts, especially those complaining about dropped series. most of them demand mangafox to continue scanlating.

          • pliky says:

            Yes, mangafox is despicable. They’re making money out of copyrighted material and the hard work of scanlators. Yes, the watermark is unnecessary, and promotes their own website if someone takes the image from them – but as long as what is stated is true and not affecting the manga as it was meant to be read (i.e. putting it over the image), I can’t say I find an issue with that. Yes, they should be shut down, if only for the for-profit stance. But I really don’t agree with you saying mangafox are subliminally influencing readers to believe they are the source of translated manga. If more and more readers forget or never realise the existence/independence of scanlation groups, it’s more a general effect of manga online readers in general. In which case all aggregators are at fault. In fact, on the title page of some manga (I admit, not all, but the big names have it) at mangafox they have a subheading “Related scanlators” and a link to the scanlator site. What else do you want them to do about scanlator exposure? Other than not being a manga reader completely.
            Of course, if they’re actively behind the scenes trying to cut scanlators out of the picture by some method or other, then they should definitely be shot, crucified, whatever. Given a very painful death.

            But what my point was, as Anonymous above seems to have missed, is you should not attack mangafox for something that is not true, or not clear enough to be treated as fact. Of course, in the end, it is only my own opinion that it is not an evident enough accusation. I may be missing things I have not seen, insider scanlator community information, etc.
            I understand your ire with how some (or, you say, the majority) of forum posters seem to have no gratitude or respect to scanlators. Saying that you make money out of it without having ever properly tried to find out (obviously, since you aren’t making money, as they would’ve seen) is immature and idiotic. But then there are always people like that, especially on forums.

            I guess what I’m trying to say is that there are enough good reasons you can give to attack mangafox, more than enough to justify calling for action to boycott it or something. Don’t word things (I’m not saying intentionally) ambiguously such that they could be understood to put mangafox in a worse light that it is. For example, “On MangaFox they say we earn money.” I know (I assume) you mean users on the forums say that. But it came across to me at first as accusing the site itself of saying that. Or perhaps I’m the only one who read it like that. But it riles me when I see fully justified bashing lead to what I see as unfair bashing. Almost like the act of attacking something becomes enjoyable on its own, some sort of means of social conversation – it devalues the criticism completely. (I still take slight issue with the fact it seems like you’re implying the site is saying/is tricking the readers into thinking you earn money.)

            As you asked, whenever I see someone unreasonably attacking you, or giving credit due to your group to something else, I will proactively defend you. But at the same time, I will do the same for mangafox, even if they’ve lost my respect ages ago. (I’ll hope you’ll forgive me when I don’t bother saying “but you’re wrong” to the people who type solely in caps, swear, and use masses of exclamation marks with bad grammar when raging about manga being taken down.)

  9. meep says:

    @NOAH HAS RAGE!!!!! and pizzapicante27: the original source of Kanokon is BlackWing and they decided to drop it 1-2 days ago. Take your complains to them. Not saying MangaFox shouldn’t be bothered but if you want Kanokon back talk to the real scanlators (wasn’t that the real purpose of this post anyway?)

  10. pizzapicante27 says:

    @meep I know that Black Wing: The guys doing Frogman and finished Kurohime among other things, I was just saying that it irked me not saying FOOLRULEZ was responsible, please learn to read.

    In the matter of MF shouldnt it be easier then to give greater support to a site of mangareading supported and that supports scanlator (cause online manga is not going away I think), like claims to do and use theresources of said page to support scanlators, like say: remove the 24 hour delay for batoto, put up announcements IN the pages chapters to support it instead of other sites, put up a forum to unify scanlators and make resouce sharing easier, things like that?, of course Ive never helped in scanlations so I dont know about this, its just my opinion as a leecher.

  11. JUke says:

    What rights do readers have to complain? It’s not like they put any effort into reading it. It isn’t even affect them heavily. Oh sure now your manga isn’t on manga fox and now you have to look up past chapters’ credits and go to the scanlators site now. Lots of effort put into using the keyboard and mouse guys!

  12. JUke says:

    oh yeah can i get the post/comment/username of the person who said this? I wanna talk to him… and kill him but hes on the internet and thats impossible

  13. Risser says:

    You know… I’ve been thinking for the past couple of months, since I started reading again (was out of it for a year), that it seems like OVERALL the rate at which manga was being scanlated had dropped. Reading this I think I know why now. Thank you for explaining it so concisely. Keep up the good work, because I love the work you foolz do.

  14. pizzapicante27 says:

    Man I just read the whole debacle between Prozess and DarkBDBB a real shame, his translations always brightened my day and where some of my currently most read series, Im gonna miss his work.

    And by the way a lot of thanks for SoranoOto 51,you guys are right at everything and have every right to work however you like, so please dont stop.

  15. user123 says:

    I don’t read manga from mangafox, i think if they are getting money behind mangakas back, then something is wrong. Some people may think, i like MS cause i can check if a new manga ep is released, instead of checking every scalation website. Well i use goggle reader, i’m subscribed to scanlation website feed, and mangaupdates feed. Therefor theres no excuse. Thanks for everything woxxy. BTW i use my ipad to check foolslide, but i don’t think is working properly. ;_;

    • woxxy says:

      Aw, sorry for the iPad thing. Sadly I can’t test it myself. Maybe XCode3 installed on my Mac will help me check with emulation of iPad1. Thanks for the report.

    • woxxy says:

      Ok, I thought on iPad it would use the normal skin, not the mobile one. I’ll fix the mobile skin as soon as possible.

      • INCOGNITOM says:

        mangafox is like your next door neighbour’s lawn mower: it’s loud, obnoxious, full of gas and is superior to yours in every way

        • George says:

          Until you look at how it works, then you realize the damn thing was broke in the first place, he was “borrowing” your gas, and all it does is make distracting noise. At least the initials of MangaFox fit.

  16. Lucky says:

    You are preaching to the choir. People who find their way onto scanlators’ sites are ones who understand basics behind this stuff, and don’t need to be told that mangafox is ripping people off on both sides of the fence.

    That said, honestly, if you quit doing something you enjoy(ed) doing just because some clueless halfwit succeeded in dragging you down to his level, and then beating you with his experience, as the old adage goes, then perhaps you simply wanted to quit and were just waiting for a reason to. And while it’s sad to see another scanlator quit, it’s just the way of life. Some people move on with their lives to the next thing, and some join the ranks of scanlators.

    On the last note, I think you can trust most of your site’s readers to set such clueless halfwits straight. We don’t get quite as riled up, but we do get pissed off at sheer level of ignorance their kind tends to spout. Some of us do it in a nice way, some like me prefer a “my boot, your face” approach. But thing is, we rarely run into each other. Clueless halfwits stick to their favorite rip off site and similar sites and don’t really wonder into the jungle that is internet beyond their few safe and known sites. That’s just the way it is.

    In my opinion, rather then waste your breathe on what is largely a lost cause (people being stupid), focus on what you care about. Because if you focused on people being stupid, you’d get nothing done in your life, be it on personal, professional or hobbyist level.

    • woxxy says:

      I don’t really want to do like DVDs with 10 minutes of notices about how it’s bad to pirate, of course.

      Posts like this one are also written to sympathize with a cause, showing that I share the same view as some other groups, and because I don’t want to fall myself under that “asserting-silence” that allows many ugly things to come true. It’s a bit political, and it can actually save us time.

      Now, you’re absolutely right that the people coming here will hardly cross paths with the people I am calling ignorant. I made a little calculation mistake on the target.
      At this point it would be lame to change my words, so let’s leave it like this.

      • Lucky says:

        The silly part? I read through the thread and I’m actually full of admiration of that mangafox troll. The guy basically has no posts but those in that particular thread, and in just seven posts of skilled trolling, he got the guy to ragequit scanlating.

        That is one skilled troll. Nevermind that the target was just pathetically easy, he picked up wrong forums, exposed his weakness (blatant inferiority complex) and then decided to still fight out around that topic. But that was just a classic case of “cast, see him grab the bait, feed him hook, line and sinker and rip him out of the water”. PROzess actually managed to “fail at internetz” in a majorly daft way, which is ironic considering how much “you have low IQ” posts he managed to accumulate in that thread.

        Conclusion? Just because you guys and him fall under umbrella of “scanlators” doesn’t mean that he’s necessarily the type you want to emphathize with. He didn’t ragequit because mangafox ripped him off, or because some random leecher called him names – on the contrary, he openly states that he’s on those forums because that’s where best community is. He left because he was a classic case of a person with a severe inferiority complex that couldn’t take a random internet troll utterly crushing his ego in a forum fight. The actual topic of discussion was largely irrelevant other then serving to hurt his ego even more, because he lost on a topic where he viewed himself “superior” (which he actually was, as he was a scanlator).

        Sometimes you just need to realize that you’re honestly a BETTER PERSON then BOTH parties in the argument and even if you agree with the point of one of the parties, it’s not a worthwhile reason to enter a pissing contest between two idiots. Especially when both of them are pissing upwind and one of them decides to ragequit after getting wet.

        • woxxy says:

          I’ll be brief with answering.


          And, as I said, there are some issues with me ignoring this, of different kinds.

        • guorbatschow says:

          Another way to see this is that one bad apple can ruin it for everyone. there is no pride to be taken in being a successful troll or winning “on the internetz”, unless you were born in this millenium. Saying that PROzess has inferiority complex is just a superficial and judgemental way to get around people you never met and have no idea about, at the same time trying to make yourself look superior.

          On the other hand, PROcess deserves respect and gratitude for making scanlations available for the audience, regardless of what his motivations were. I dare you to do better. Of course you can say that PROcess was egotistical, then I can tell you this: the majority of scanlators, open source programmers and wikipedia editors are not much different. If they are not paid with money, they at least can expect to reap recognition for their work. If you think they volunteer for self-fulfillment, advance of humankind and world peace, then you probably also believe that the US invaded Iraq purely to establish democracy there.

          • Lucky says:

            A simple point: if he were not providing a service, would you view him differently. If so, in what way?

            Consider that providing a service to the community for free does give some leeway. It is not a get-out-of-jail-free-no-matter-what-you-do card however. I’m not going to even touch on your denial of his inferiority complex – that is obvious to anyone who has outgrown his/her teenage angst and has even a shred of perspective – especially considering just how severe his case is and how easy it is to spot with bare basics of knowledge of human psychology.

            Finally consider that respect is earned through certain behavior. Respect that is demanded lasts for as long as people find leeching off person demanding respect worth demeaning themselves and it’s not actual respect – it’s just plain groveling. While some of us enjoy groveling, you’ll find that most despise both those who grovel as well as those who demand groveling.

            In short, pick your battles, don’t argue with idiots and trolls, and don’t DEMAND respect. Earn it and learn to ignore the idiots that do not understand this. People who you should care about will respect you because of your actions. The rest aren’t worth the time you’ll waste on arguing with them, as this particular forum convo clearly showed.

            Be better then trolls and idiots, lest you end up inadvertently joining them. As PROcess did.

            Also it would be greatly appreciated if you didn’t draw conclusions that are borderline silly, like thinking that trolling and “winning internetz” (albeit under a different name) didn’t exist before 2000. We just had dial-up BBSs instead of more monolithic internet back in the 1980s and early 1990s. But trolls were pretty much the same, as were their targets. I can testify on this subject personally.
            And on final note, there is a major difference between recognition and demanding ego stroking and oratory blow jobs. Most folks at mozilla foundation for example, want the former (and generally get it, along with really nice salaries). PROcess clearly wanted latter. And he would’ve gotten it too, if he stuck to demanding it from his clique instead of going to the more hostile side of internet without moderating his demands appropriately.

            In this regard, if you want to talk about bad apples ruining it for everyone, I’d point out that this applies to PROcess at least as much if not more then to the nameless troll that got to him. Because vast majority of people in the community do not behave like that in public.

          • guorbatschow says:

            Let me say it this way: so what if he has an inferiority complex? the difference between those who “won the internet” and PROzess is that the latter contributed, the former did nothing but to act tough. I said nothing about trolling not existing before 2000. I was merely saying that unless you are twelve, or younger, acting tough and trying to win on the internet is rather pointless. Typical for those people is to rant whole chapters without reading what other people actually wrote.

            The way PROzess handled this situation is perfectly sensible. He wanted recognition in return for his translations. When he realized that this is not possible in the community he chose, he stopped due to lack of reward he sought. Who are you to criticize this decision? Does he owe you? The fact that he wanted recognition instead of money or something else for his work is not even subject to this discussion, it’s his choice. You calling him egotistical because of this can just as well be interpreted as ungrateful rant of a leecher not getting his weekly dose. Why else do you care?

          • Lucky says:

            You seem to attempt to strawman the argument by turning it on its head. No, he doesn’t owe me (or anyone else for that matter on that forum). But that wasn’t ever the issue – I didn’t care about the guy or the troll who got to him. That’s their business. Issue was the fact that people around here (and on the forum itself) felt that THEY OWED HIM support. Because they are scanlators also, or because they liked the series he’s scanlating or because they felt that scanlator scene was somehow insulted.

            And I don’t like the idea of people who aren’t assholes, feeling like they owe something to an asshole with severe inferiority complex who can’t even pick his fights and who ragequits like little child who got his ass kicked in “whos daddy is stronger” sandbox contest. And then stomps is feet and demands sympathy while pointedly stating “well I ain’t coming back, nah nah”. The entire point of my post was that people like woxxy really shouldn’t take part in angsty pissing contests like these just because they both fall under the umbrella of “scanlators”. The most important statement of mine was that sometimes you need to understand you’re a better person and just walk away. Which she agreed to, end of story.

            I hope this clarifies the problem I had with this issue for you, because the comment form appears to have run out of option to socket in more replies. I’m guessing that’s on purpose, so that comment section doesn’t become an argument zone.

  17. Anonymous says:

    You guys are awesome! I’m releasing manga in a foreign languange, and i’d like to put this text on my website as well, as a headups for people. Do i have permission to translate it? :D

  18. ratbunuts says:

    Wow this is issue with mangafox is getting big. I don’t know much whats going on with them since I always go to the scanlator’s site for my archive and mangafox manga’s are shit anyway. I hope you guys don’t follow prozess decision and quit. I hate to see a good scanlators to go bye bye. I’m rooting for you guys so keep up the good work.

  19. flapjack21 says:

    I’ve been a lurker on FoOlRulez for some time now. This post has finally made me feel the need to add my two sense. I completely agree with what you guys say and stand for, personally I think you guys are kind of the voice of the scantalation community. When one group sees trouble, you can be FoOlRulez will help them out in a time of need, truly admirable.

    As mentioned by someone else, those of us that actually do visit the scantalator’s websites all know the back story between the community and MF. Unfortunately preaching to the choir may ease your frustrations but it isn’t going to actually accomplish much, especially when a troll on MF manages such a crippling blow. When fights like these happen on the MF forums, it never makes the scantalator look good, most likely looking pedantic, egotistical or just butt-hurt. Fighting on an opponent’s terms is never a good idea, much less those blasted ignorant MF kids.

    Mentioning all these flaws, there is no clear solution. I really want to help groups but money is an issue for me (as it is for everyone). Yet despite this, I still find money in my budget to actually buy the full tankobons when they are available. If anything the one thing I would like to see you guys do is simply state that you are banning MF on the forums if necessary, where to find it then leave it at that. This way people won’t get frustrated and quit unexpectedly and the drama won’t escalate to this breaking point.

    Lastly, I just wanted to voice my support and say that the FoOlReader is a great idea and other sites are putting it to good use. The true readers are, for the most part, a quiet group, yet we always support and are thankful for everything you guys do.

  20. Mashed Potatoes says:

    I really appreciate the manga you guys keep up on, and I understand how hard it is just to keep it up. I have thought about joining the group, but I could only be a spell-checker of sorts, since I don’t have skills anywhere else =/
    People really do seem to be ignorant when it comes to what they receive, but it’s like that with everything they own. They don’t care where their TV came from, or who made their shoes, but that they’re at a low price and good quality.
    I admit that I use Mangafox, but I’m glad I’ve come to the realization that’s not where everything happens, it’s just where everything gets archived. I hope you guys will have an increase in staff and appreciation.
    PS- Sorry I haven’t been on the forum in a while >~<

  21. Peaches The Scanlator says:

    Thanks foolrulez for your manga reader btw~ Its the sh*t and better than any mangahosting reader I have ever seen (except for one..private site though).

  22. VawX says:

    well, the first time i knew manga spreading in the internet is from a manga reader site, the biggest one at the time, One Manga, mmm…
    but then i learned about other manga reader sites (yeah still manga readers) which most of them is worse than OM, but MangaFox is somehow more or less the same mmm…
    then i learned a bit about scanlator and more with time mmm…
    and after such a long time, since OneManga closed, the only Mangareader site that i still have a little “hope and respect” is actually Mangafox, but recently (less than a year) they lost their dignity in my eyes with SO MANY “THINGS” CAUSED by them mmm…
    and the loss of PROzess from scanlation world really shock me and because of that i hope one thing
    and that is for MANGAFOX TO BE CLOSED, though it will be a bit hard since they have the “dirty” money mmm…

    the main point that i want to say is… I’m still a leecher till now since i don’t really have the ability to translate nor editing (though i can do a bit), but i’m still a bit too busy IRL, but i GRADUATED from being an IDIOT and LAZY LEECHER, into SMART LEECHER that respect scanlators and the staffs, mmm…

  23. Bandages says:

    I already love you long time, Woxxy. <3

    I was looking at DarkDBDD's server argument, and I was like 'wtf, I'm pretty sure mangafox makes way more than what their costs would add up to, AND they got that damn store.'

  24. Solerum says:

    So how does mangafox make money lol, I go read there once in a while. As far as I have browsed it’s free. And mostly when I read a chapter there is a page at the start or at the end, from which scanlation group it came from. With a website link, the translator,proofreader,rawprovider,etc,etc.

    “Readers say scanlators are greedy.” There is absolutely no point in trying to convince these people otherwise, there called “Simple-minded”. These are the same people who think wresteling is real. with an estimated IQ of 80-90. Any attempt to educate them or convince them your not making thousands of dollars a month is a waste of your good time and effort. And as such you should not do it.

    It’s better to just stick around with smarter people. There are around 5 Billion people online, do you really care 80% thinks your a greedy and selfish person? There are still a Billion left who have some common sense. More then you will ever be able to speak too. It’s best to simply ignore the masses

    Currently I’m seeing a futuristic reader on somemanga, that looks like yours. The reason why I need a mangasite where they have lots of manga series, is because of the updates. If there are like 20 manga series your following then it’s hard to visit each scanlation site seperatly. Because I’m afraid to miss an update I usually go to such a mangasite.

    And I really do appreciate work that scanlation/translation groups do for the manga-reading community. Without them I would not be able to experience the joy of reading these, which has probaly taken up 6 months of my life. -.-

    • woxxy says:

      MangaFox makes money through advertising. Advertising on big sites pays tens of thousands of dollars a month.

      …there’s only just a little more than 2 billion people online. And like one to ten million read manga online.

      If you want to keep track of releases, rather use since it’s scanlators themselves publishing there their releases.

      • Solerum says:

        Well okay 2 billion then, But 1-10 million mangareaders seem way to low. Even so there will be a lot of people happy with scanlators.

        People still see adds on the internet?

        I’l try this mangaupdate’s. It seems a bit complicated at first, but it might be worth to investigate.



        • guorbatschow says:

          you probably havent noticed. there is this company called google. they make 30 billion dollars revenue per year, of which most is through advertising.

          so yes, people do earn money by advertising. as long as they have a lot of traffic. some generate traffic by offering popular services, see google, facebook, youtube, etc. others generate traffic by drawing people with popular content, see blogs, news sites, web comics etc. some others generate traffic by stealing content, works equally well, but is way cheaper.

          • Solerum says:

            Sorry I haven’t seen a single add in years. People should use firefox and addblock though.

          • woxxy says:

            Many of the large scanlators pay server expenses through ads.

            I am lucky that less than 5%-6% of our users uses adblock, else FoOlRulez wouldn’t exist, as I wouldn’t have money to afford a server.

            Ads serve to a purpose on the Internet: not to make readers pay for a service.
            Then there are those who earn several times more than they spend, like MangaFox. But that’s a minority.

          • Solerum says:

            I choose to rather donate then being annoyed by ads. I never click on them, NEVER, and the background sounds “Hey!” and “Boing,Boing” annoy the hell out of me.

          • Solerum says:

            “I am just proving the point that ads serve to a purpose” Yes they most certainly do. And I am kind of troubled finding the donation button here. Is there even one?

          • Solerum says:

            “On MangaFox they say we earn money. Which is so far from true, I even take coding jobs to be able to afford this server.”

            Confusion strikes me! But if you say so, i’l take your word for it? ;/

          • woxxy says:

            I just don’t want to deal with donations right now, and my coding jobs pay well enough.

            Seemingly I am pissing people off by not allowing them lately <_<

          • Tran Linh says:

            lolz, to tell the truth, we are not earning anything here.
            And even if money is earned, then it’s better the scanlator so they can restock their expense, buy raw, pay for hosting service…to bring out more manga. NOT the kind of mangafox, mangatrader

          • Solerum says:

            “Seemingly I am pissing people off by not allowing them lately <_<"

            Well that is because, in your letter it seems like you do a whole lot of effort to be able to pay this site. "I even take coding jobs to be able to afford this server" Emphasis on the word (even)

            Now people who read manga and like Foolrulez symphatyse with this and feel a bit sorry for you and team to work so hard without getting stuff. "every scanlator always thinks about quitting, because it’s a really time-taking hobby without much reward."

            So they want to lighten your burden of having to take extra work, so you can afford the server. With Donations.

            And then you come and tell them that you don't need it :( FuFuFuFu!

  25. lijipoke says:

    wHaaaaaat!? but manga fox is awesome! they could never do anything wrong!……

    …okay, even with a sarcastic tone that joke still hurt to write…

  26. Tran Linh says:

    There are two types of ads mangafox/mangareader/mangatrader is using:

    1. CPM meaning Cost per thousand impressions. It means that, the advertisers will pay Mangafox like $1-2 for 1000 views. Ok, now see this, you go to or mangafox, you click on one chapter manga and look at the header and the footer of that page. You will see ads. Have you ever wondered why this manga industry is such a profiting business? Because 1 chapter of manga is not 1 page, it’s freaking 20-100 pages for one chapter, if a person read page 1, clicks on page 2, you will see the ads changing, meaning that, now mangafox already got 2 impressions. For 1 person reading 20 pages, they got 20 impression. For 1000 people reading 20 pages and so on…for 12million reading a 20 pages…you name it. And then there’s the huge number of manga mangafox/mangareader is hosting. That’s how much mangafox is making alone with CPM.

    2. CTR or Click through rate. Look, the ads I mentioned above is not simply for the “viewing” purpose. It serves another aim: click on the ads and lead to the advertisers’ sites…advertisers will pay a LOT more for a click on the ads and lead the clicker to the advertiser’s site. The CTR is around $0.5 to $15/1 click (not $15/1000 clicks, remind you, it’s is $15/1 click. Why the CTR is so so high? because to the advertisers, if there’s a person coming to their site, it may mean a potential customer and chances are, that customer may buy something. That’s why $0.5 to $15/1 click. Now have you ever accidentally click on such ads? In 200.000 ip viewing mangafox every single day, there are chance that, like 0.5% of us while impatiently waiting for the page to load, mistakenly/or purposely click on such ads. And that’s one of the biggest income of mangafox.

    3. Lead and CPA marketing, toy shop,anime…it’s a long talk and I don’t want to waste my time here anymore. But I just want to conclude somethingL

    a. We scanlators are doing this as hobby and not for profit. Mangafox/mangareader/mangatrader does shit to release the manga. They trample on our hobby and make money from it while scanlators like us have to pay our own pocket money to buy raw, hosting service and other expenses…it’s not fair to us when someone is making money and get all the recognition while they barely have to do a thing about the actual scanlation work. (Translating, proofreader, cleaning, redrawing, editing, quality checking and so on…). Who are doing all these hard works? Scanlator, who are working their asses off to bring out the scanlation work? Scanlator. What does the kind of mangafox/mangatrader do? Host our releases, get big money, get all the recognition…that’s just like a parasite.

    b. How many of the fans have actually say a “thanks” in the scanlator’s site? Look at every single manga on mangafox and see how many monthly pageviews it gets, and then go to that scanlator’s site to see how many “thanks”? I doubt it’s more than 0.001%.

    c. Scanlator like PROzess is bringing out manga to help you continue reading your favorite manga, he may be acting inappropriately to the situation, but it’s the “irresponsible readers” that’s at fault here we all lost another member of the scanlator community. It hurts so bad when someone could even say that “mangafox will scanlate Iris Zero” and the such, that’s just pure stupidity and hopeless ignorance. If everyone readers continue the way it is, scanlator will gradually disappear and only famous manga would be scanlated.

    Last note: it’s really hard to learn Japanese believe me, i’m a Japanese translator myself). From my point of view, you can learn editing in several hours to several days but to learn an entirely new language, it takes YEARS of hard studying…and the irresponsible leechers (yeah, they don’t deserve to be called “reader” now) just pissed off one of the most valued member of the scanlation world. My advice? be a responsible reader. That’s all.

    Thanks for reading my 2cents

    • Lucky says:

      You’re lumping everything in one big ball. Even those who don’t deserve it, like mangatraders.

      They don’t get “big €€€” because they don’t host individual pages. All the downloading you do there is essentially compressed onto 1-2 pages tops. For your favourite/newest releases, you don’t even visit them at all (zero impressions), you just download directly from RSS. In fact, as far as I know they have to rely on significant amount of monthly donations just to stay on float and are sttrictly no-profit, as they not only get minimal ad revenue, but they also host everything on their own servers rather then outsource hosting to someone who pays them for it.

      Now I understand that this still taxes you if you’re making money off scanlations by participating in moneymaking schemes like fileserve/depositfiles. Of course you really shouldn’t be doing this if it’s generating profit for you, as in most places infringement becomes criminal when done with intention to profit from it – you expose yourself to a completely different level of a legal response in the process. Additionally you are breaking the TOS of these sites as they clearly state that only things that you own full rights to can be published there. But of course, most of the people who use these sites for money also break these rules, and heck, the sites themselves know it. Nothing new there, that’s how the world works. Many scanlator and fansub groups partially or fully finance themselves through such services nowadays.

      That said, lumping mangatraders into the same category as mangafox shows a great deal of ignorance on your part in this particular subject. Mangafox is

      1. profiting from your work in the open
      2. usurping your name
      3. bastardising the end result with re-compression and watermarks

      Mangatraders does none of these things, which is why most scanlators I know are actually perfectly fine with their stuff being uploaded there.

      • Tran Linh says:

        Ignorance is a sin, however, but not lack of knowledge.
        Mangatreader is way wiser.
        One of the basis online money making is lure people to click on the advertisement so the advertisers will pay big money. In short, it’s CTR. Now, how do you get people to click on it? Not many people click on it because they are interested, especially for the comic niche or not. That’s why in order to gain the maximum amount of click one a day. Mangatrader is doing the basis: blend the ads in.
        Condition to use it:
        1. Text link (people will mistake it’s this site’s link, they might thought it’s as oh, maybe i can download my manga there).
        2. Color in the same as other text.
        3. Great traffic.
        You have the three of them, then you can blend the google ads in LIKE MANGATRADER IS DOING! IT”S NO WONDER IF MANGATRADER might even earn a CRT better than mangafox!, not other type of advertising, of course).
        Beside they have ads on their header as well, on every pages you are opening there, they got ads as well. That’s why they are no better than mangafox. We, the scanlator are doing this for you, how could you treat us like that?

        • Tran Linh says:

          Filesonic doesn’t earn you much if you don’t sell premium acc for them. Deposiftiles earns like crap. Especially in our releases, one chapter is normally 1mb (lolz, yeah,i’ve been releasing Working! and one chapter is like 1.3mb) so it earns the worst you can think.
          Btw, what mangatrader was doing above is “faking the content to get people mistakenly click on the ads so they get CTR which range from $0.5-$15 a lead”. I forgot to mention about it.

          • Lucky says:

            White background with black text and blue links is the industry standard back from 1980s. It’s taught at universities as a part of basic usability course and if I memory doesn’t fail it me it has roots from before http, in gopher browsers.

            Big banners on the side and top of the page are also industry standard, though slightly smaller.

            I’m not seeing any issue with layout. They have exactly three ads per page, there’s no confusion on which are ads and which are content any more then there is on any similar comparable site (note: not talking about mangafox and such) and as I noted, you don’t even have to view ANY of them – you can download straight through RSS.

            I’m not seeing anything that would point at them “raking in the dough” to justify the righteous fury akin to one pointed at mangafox. Unless the only way you could see such site working is purely through donation with no ads at all, I would say their layout and business model are perfectly acceptable. That is a non-profit donation driven site staffed by volunteers that gets just enough money from ads and donations to cover server costs.

            Would you mind clarifying your exact problem with this approach? It’s fairly obvious that the site isn’t making a profit, isn’t bastardising your releases, doesn’t remove any credits and even provides a list of scanlators along with a ling to mangaupdates page of each group (which usually contains up-to-date contact info of the group).

          • guorbatschow says:


            please elaborate why it is obvious that mangatraders and/or mangafox is/are not making profit. btw mangafox’ disclaimer is not an evidence.

          • Lucky says:

            Wait what? Where did I say that mangafox isn’t about making profit. In fact I’m directly saying they’re making profit just a few posts up in this chain.

            You did try to strawman the argument in this thread before. This is a second attempt. Please stop, as I’m genuinely interested why Tran Linh doesn’t like mangatraders interface and is willing to clump mangatraders together with mangafox, even though by far and large, consensus among most scanlators is that “uploading to mangaraders is okay” even among those who very specifically forbid uploading their stuff to mangafox.

          • guorbatschow says:

            “It’s fairly obvious that the site isn’t making a profit” is what you wrote. I couldn’t be 100% sure whether “the site” refers to mangatraders or mangafox, hence the “and/or”.

            please elaborate? stop trying to distract by insinuating that i want to start a fight.

          • Lucky says:

            Conclusion based on observation of material available to anyone with a browser:

            1. Mangatraders is set up in a way detrimental to moneymaking

            a. Only basic ads
            b. Files hosted on their own servers
            c. Files can be downloaded without getting a single ad impression
            -interface is made to favour such downloads and they are advertised prominently
            d. Files are allowed to be packaged into large volumes, causing significant additional stress to the servers while reducing impressions even further
            e. Multiple files can be downloaded at once without getting any additional impressions
            f. Make site visually unattractive, simplistic and focused on its core function – to serve as a library of various manga releases
            g. Actively avoid advertising yourself and advocate such avoidance on own forums
            h. Site contains clear way to donate towards server costs along with an accessible donation balance sheet and a appears on the surface to be operated just as it claims – by a group of non-paid volunteers.
            i. Site contains a clear sheet of incurred costs and disclaimer stating that donated money will only go towards site maintenance.
            j. Comparison of costs sheet vs donations sheet shows a 94USD deficit, which is what is likely covered by ads (+ potential additional one time incurred costs related to server maintenance such as exchanging dead drives).

            addenum: Donation status and disclaimer found here:

            2. Mangafox provides excellent comparison on how to operate if you actually want to make profit:
            a. Split all archives into largest possible amount of files to maximise impressions
            b. Ensure that access to any new file results in new impressions
            c. Repackage and re-compress to save on bandwidth costs
            d. Actively insinuate that you’re the actual scanlator
            e. Avoid any and all links to other sources of material, including original scanlators and/or aggregator sites such as mangaupdates
            f. Aggressively market and advertise yourself
            g. Make your site visually appealing beyond basic requirements needed for functionality
            h. Branch out into other aspects of related business such as web shopping of related goods

            This just off top of my head. Now, I would really like an answers to my original questions from Tran Linh.

          • Tran Linh says:

            Seriously, i don’t have time for this. I’m really busy, so I will just throw in info + hintz and you go do it yourself, please:

            1. They admit it themselves: the cost for the hosting plan is around $600-700 (to be honest, I doubt if they are saying the truth, but regardless let’s assume it as $700), and while they already make profit from donation, they now got a bigger income that they never use or tell the donators about. That’s the ads:
            Visitors to around 100.000 a day.
            Normal visitors would spend time on 6.5 unique pages view every visit.
            That number alone would gain them a good CPM already. and then, now you see that CTR is much higher than Mangafox. Given the CTR is so high using google ads, they could be making at least $200-500 or even bigger if 0.1% of that unique visitors wrongly clicked on the ads to “read manga online” or “top 10 manga” this is actually google adsense.
            Moreover, because of the big unique pageviews they are having everyday, the chance the clicks are much higher. And that’s the source of their main income which they never tell anyone. If they are just, then why the hell they would be saying nothing about that?
            If they support scanlator, then why the hell they host without permission?
            End of story. Got no time, seriously.

          • Lucky says:

            Your CTR claim is completely unrealistic given both the nature of google ads, and the fact that they don’t even show if you use the site as it’s supposed to be used – to get updates and search for the series. Google ads only show on a handful of pages in fact, such as when browsing series – something an average site user rarely if ever does. It would only be even marginally realistic if they went the way of mangafox and gave you google ads every time you tried to downloaded something (as alexa ranks page views like that) and put those next to download links. They don’t, as stated above. In fact, google ads don’t even show at all when site is used like that.

            Specifically google ads do NOT show at all when doing tasks that mangatraders actively encourages you to do, like:

            a. Visiting series’ page
            b. Searching for series
            c. Viewing your favorite/watched lists
            d. Downloading specific releases from your favorite/watched lists, series list, RSS, etc.

            The only instance where google ads are shown is when browsing series list, where it’s done in one place, relatively obviously (google ads prefix on the line of 4 ad links is in black bold text, google ads load separately so on most browsers you’ll see them clearly separated from the rest of page structure such as getting white background before page is fully rendered in firefox while the rest of the page retains black site background until page is fully loaded and rendered). Such use of the site is very rare, as most people come there to get releases for series that they already know to exist. Mangaupdates is significantly better for actual browsing and is prominently linked on mangatraders from every series’ page.

            Same goes for two banners, that are clearly among the lowest cost per impression (they aren’t targeted and show random crap). Additionally as important information such as actual link to releases is typically shown all the way down you don’t ever really see top banner, only middle one.

            As a result I honestly don’t see the reason for your anger. It seems strongly misguided by a notion that they’re making a lot of money from your work, which just seems unrealistic, as even if they did make money, it would likely be in the realm in dual digits USD tops, where any fileserver maintenance spike would quickly swallow that in overhead of various single time payments that add to top of any hosting plan.

            Granted I could be wrong as I don’t have their financial statements for obvious reasons, but all signs that I can see point towards me being right and none of your claims dispute them – your only claim is that somehow they have awesome CTR on google ads that they rake dough from, which is completely unrealistic for reasons given above. The site is just set up completely wrong to make money out of it in the first place, and you’re among the very small minority of scanlators who don’t like it. I recommend you take time to actually read through the list I posted above – it may (or may not) get you to change your opinion somewhat.

            It’s your right not to like it of course.

          • Tran Linh says:

            gosh, i really don’t have time for this crap, meh, i’m too busy to go on a internet fight to see who’s right or wrong. So in the end you are saying is a site for fan…and I call that bullshit, if they are for fan then they don’t need the ads anyways, because they already are making a profit based on the donation money. And now you are like the brat trying to win this “fight” by denying that fact. Or are you one of those money-thriving bastards admins there in mangatraders? It has gone beyond my imagination to see a reader like you. Mangatraders has MO RESPECT FOR SCANLATOR whatsoever, they don’t give a FUCK about our policy, in that aspect, they are even WORSE than mangafox who still *sometimes* abide to some of our requests. And that you are calling them a site for fan? I conclude that as the fact and I won’t add any more comment, I feel stupid to have met the kind of leecher like you (maybe you are not leecher, maybe you are the kind of mangatraders) meh. A waste of time.

          • Lucky says:

            > because they already are making a profit based on the donation money. <


            900 USD – 994 USD = -94 USD (94 USD monthly _deficit_ based on donations alone).

            Seems like this disputes both your claim of profit on donations, and your claim on not needing ads to fund themselves. Do you have a better source? I'll take anything reasonable, including potential google search terms or even someone reasonably close to the site citing different numbers.

            Also please calm down. I'm trying to understand the underlaying reasons for your anger because I don't see any factual support for them – yet I'm finding a large amount of facts that refute them. Do note that this discussion lacks many of the "internet war" style problems, such as name calling (well, on my end), baseless claims and strawmanning. I'm backing my statements with facts and reasonable explanations and am citing sources – it would be at least polite to extend similar kindness back.

            So would you mind actually sourcing your claims, like one where "admins admitted to lower costs" and "making a lot of money with CTR" that don't show anywhere except when rarely browsing a certain small section of the site? They really do seem meritless based on material stated above.

            Seriously, I'm not being a dick here. I'm actively trying to see the merit in your side of the argument, and you're making it really hard with the name calling and raging.

          • guorbatschow says:

            @Lucky: so what you said were “obvious” are purely based on speculation, no hard facts?

          • Lucky says:

            I suppose that would depend on your definition of “hard facts”, how you differentiate them from normal facts, and since drone attacks in Libya were classified as “non-hostile” recently, I suppose a total list of:

            1. Sources
            2. General analysis of the site
            3. Comparison vs template of what it is being accused of

            could potentially not count as either in your book.

            Seriously, this is your third attempt to strawman argument in this thread while presenting no counter-arguments of your own. You are now attempting to claim that I’m the one not providing the facts, and insinuating that I’m the one with the burden of proof. Yet Tran Linh is the one shooting around accusations along with claims. All I did was refute his claims, on point-by-point basis, and both sourced and explained the basis of my refutals. I’ve gone quite a bit beyond what is normally awarded on a forum discussion. What more would, or even could you reasonably expect?

            If you wish to address which _specific_ parts of my refutals were not “hard” enough for you, please go ahead. Else, you are just two-line strawmaning long arguments. Which I suppose is fitting, as that’s how the whole thing got RPOcess raging in the first place. This particular irony is not lost on me. Sadly I’m really too old and jaded to actually bother to rage over such topics…

          • woxxy says:

            What I see is them making enough money with donations, plus having advertising in the right spots, even obviously mimicking the layout to trick people, and very high number of readers.

            I have no doubts they are making money. Probably enough money not to need donations. And I have no doubts they know how to make them, because they use specific advertisers in specific spots as well. Groupon ads aren’t easy to get, and they pay a lot, plus they get that company replaced by Adsense when they don’t get enough ad revenue from it. It’s perfectly planned, and great they have less than 1000 to spend a month. They get those 100.000 readers a day, and if I had that much on FoOls and those ads, I’d be making easily 100 dollars a day.

            And I don’t really care if they are making money.

          • Lucky says:

            Perhaps I’m in a wrong geolocation and getting different ads, or I’m still on some sort of ad blocker on network level (weird, this is my private network and there shouldn’t be any). All I’m seeing are tehnorati media ads (which are what you see plastered in blogosphere usually) that aren’t usually stuff that brings in big bucks afaik – especially since what I’m seeing is ad council stuff, which is very low payout. Correct me if you have any recent experience in the field – I haven’t messed with online advertising since leaving university some years ago.

            And yeah, of those page views, most people don’t get ANY adsense impressions, much less click throughs. Or again, I’m having something block them (geolocation?), because I’m not seeing them outside “browse series” section of the site, which is rarely if ever used because frankly, it’s shit, most likely by design.

            Strange. Do you actually see any adsense/groupon for example here (first series that popped into mind)?
            All I get is two technorati media ad council banners.

          • woxxy says:

            I deal with advertising a lot since many scanlation groups ask me, though I can’t call myself an expert.

            Now I am getting ads from “adroll”, that page you linked, about MediaTemple servers, and those again appear often on large sites. Which also means they even have a third option for advertising.

            Indeed this must be geolocation or ads “following me”, since I am potentially a good customer when it comes to servers.

          • Lucky says:

            That at least confirms no adsense ads anywhere other then in browse series part of the site, so that clears off that part.

            I’m assuming you’re seeing the same two banners as me (obviously different ads based on geolocation but same size/style)? One on top of the page and one on the right side? That would probably put them into a few hundred a month category at least firmly into the realm of profitable unless their ad click through is utterly horrible killing their rates.

          • guorbatschow says:

            “Strawman” must be your favorite platitude to avoid answering question or coming up with valid arguments. Why don’t you look up what it actually means?

            You were saying that it is “obvious” that MT don’t make profits. I stated that it’s anything but obvious. You failed to produce backing evidence again and again. Better yet, there are good evidence that they are indeed making profit. They got most of their costs covered by donations, yet have huge chunks of their site covered by ads. Count in their traffic numbers and their nifty ad placement, …

            Where’s the strawman? There is a whole catalogue of fallacies, why don’t you choose a more suitable one if you try to discredit me?

            To be honest, I don’t care if they make a few bucks. But making outrageous claims while you don’t even grasp the concept of personalized ads just begs to be questioned.

            My bet is that you said it was “obvious” to belittle other commenters.

          • Lucky says:

            Interesting screenshot. I’m not seeing the line you’re linking on my end. FF, IE and Opera all don’t show it.

            I’ll look into it. Thanks.

            Weird placement for an ad through. Nothing worth clicking anywhere near. Releases are all the way down, and adding to watch and favorite list is too far above.

          • Lucky says:

            The issue with ad display was on my end, specifically a very funky ad-blocker functionality built into the firewall that got itself enabled at some point in the recent past, I’m guessing in an automatic update.

            I’m forced to concede that I was most likely wrong on the issue and Tran Linh right.

            The reason why I would find moneymaking to be a bad thing for a site like mangatraders is a bit more of a “line in the sand” kind. I’m still living in a country where copyright infringement that isn’t done in interest of making a profit is a civil matter, while one done with making money in mind is a criminal one. The difference is that where in civil case, the person who holds the copyright is the only one that has any right to complain, criminal case is handled by a prosecutor at his own discretion.
            This also carries a significant ethical penalty – it’s one thing to enjoy something done “for fans, by fans”, it’s quite a bit another to support someone who’s essentially bootlegging. Hence I’m all in for someone who agrees to function as a repository and makes no profit, or bare minimal profit. I’m completely against someone who chooses to simply make such a depository into a normal for profit corporation.

            I’m a bit of an old school person on this matter, having been with the community since before 2000. But that is why the issue carries quite a bit of importance for me.

            And of course, there’s an obvious issue of target size. It’s quite pointless to sue a small group of people who aren’t making profit. It’s quite a bit another to sue someone who has made money for quite a while, and has a realistic chance of making a decent payout upon losing a court case. This is more of an issue in line of mangafox though, even if mangatraders likely ends with profit, it’s unlikely to be significant enough to matter on that scale.

    • guorbatschow says:

      thumbs up.

      CPM is also the reason why aggregator sites don’t use ajax with image preloading to make reading more convenient: if turning a page doesnt mean loading a webpage, then there are way less page impressions. that’s why foolslide will not be adopted by mangafox et al.

      • Lucky says:

        A good way to say this is that foolslide is designed for the user. Sites like mangafox are designed for the advertiser.

        That’s the real reason for re-compression of images as well, less data transferred per impression = more profit.

    • Lucky says:

      There will always be people who will. They just won’t find their way to sites like these, because they don’t want to, nor care to.

  27. SaleenS57 says:


    He woxxy, is this the most comments foolrulez has ever had on one topic?

  28. Boku no Schooldays na Kanojo says:

    I totally agree with everything you said, and even if you can say there will always be idiots on the internet, the issue here is how huge the amount of ignorant people is on the online manga community that is just encouraging sites like mangafox to continue with their exploitism insted of passing on the proper credit to the scanlators, which is mostly the only thing they are asking for.

    I can’t believe that there will be some solution yet, as well how reluctant mangafox must be to remove earlier releases when they’re already doing illegal things, all one can do is not release any more manga to mangafox and work towards making it a generalized rule in the scanlation community not to let sites like mangafox host their releases, but we won’t see anything like that soon.

  29. ThatFatGuy says:

    Can’t we just ask LulzSec to take down Mangafox?

    I’m sure they’d take pleasure doing so.

      • Lucky says:

        Who will be the high tech nation with large mine fields, and who will be the more primitive one with so many young disposable men to clear minefields with their bodies?

  30. 0927123 says:

    Any better alternatives to mangafox then? I usually check mangafox and mangareader, but for the last few months I’ve been checking straight to the translator’s website (eg. foolrulez ftw).

    • Lucky says:

      Realistically the best option (imho) is mangaupdates > scanlator site link > download > CDisplay.

      Optionally you can go to mangatraders for downloads, but that brings a bit of delay, and pain in naming schemes if you want to maintain consistency. That and at least for a while chances are that you’re relying on some random internet person (TM) who uploaded the chapter/volume to have done the job right. That isn’t always so.

      • Mael says:

        Is there an alternative to CDisplay? I don’t really like using pgdn to turn pages.

        • Lucky says:

          right click > configure > program settings > check “alternate arrow keys for tablet PCs”.

          Makes arrow keys left and right load previous and next image.
          You can also hit space button for next image as well in any mode.

          • Mael says:

            Now, Everytime I push the down arrow, It just skips what i’m on and goes to another file. Do you know how I can fix this?

            Sorry for being such a amateur.

          • Lucky says:

            It sets arrows to the old tablet PCs that didn’t have keyboards. Down arrow is “go to next set of files” and up arrow is “load files”.

            Also, remember that you can always use page down and page up located on the numeric pad (3 and 9) with num lock off.

  31. Jennifu says:

    You have a great point. I feel bad patronizing MangaFox now… actually, with their new bootleg-selling site, it’s been pretty hard to stomach.

    I think that it would help bunches if scanlators did make an online viewer for their scanlations– maybe with some open-source code shared among groups– and a site would aggregate links to those viewers instead of aggregating the scans wholesale. Then the scanlators could get their own well-deserved site traffic, fans would get their quick fix, and the discussions on the series would stay on the sites they belong. I already read DCTP’s scans on their online viewer, and doing so has gotten me more involved on the site and with the community that I would have otherwise.

  32. Gcg says:

    Out of curiosity, how much would it cost to get the license for a series like SnO or Seitokai Yakuindomo or Toma-gura?

    • woxxy says:

      It’s really hard to find data, because agencies don’t want to give it in the open.

      From what I heard, licenses in USA span from 5000 to 75000 euro, but these manga aren’t that popular, so I think between 5000 and 15000.

      Then, it depends on the kind of agreement. Like, one could just make an agreement to give 50% profits to the publisher, and get it on a cheaper initial investment.
      Also, Japanese publishers are used to oblige companies to buy “packs of licenses”, so you can’t buy only SYD, you have to buy also three other unsellable manga together with it. Pretty lame, and from another age when Internet didn’t exist…

      Know where’s the good profit? Hentai.

  33. shred says:

    Unreal. I’m amazed that some reader sites that don’t scam/charge/etc. get a C&D letter and effectively shut down yet Manga Fox continues to thrive. I almost wonder if Manga Fox actually targeted competitive sites & “turned them in” to the publishers. I’m also amazed that people actually think Manga Fox has ANYTHING to do with the actual scanlations. Uh…there IS a CREDITS page people – how hard is it to figure out!? Someone needs to spam the site to death. How many groups/scanners have quite because of Manga Fox?

    I’ll never pay a cent to sites like Manga Fox. There’s no reason to do so. If you look hard enough, even old scans are available somewhere. I DL everything, archive what I like & delete the rest. it’s a little more work, but not that big of a deal. In the very rare case I can’t find something, then I’ll go to some other reader site. “Manga Fox only reader?” LMAO. More like Manga Fox pawn (or troll).

    Woxxy is 100% right about supporting the scanners. Though it’s been a while, I was in a scanlation group. It’s a lot of work – especially HQ scanning. Even so, it was fun overall (apart from the occasional crappy raw that took 23050 hours to clean). I guess I was lucky since not only did we not need donations or ad funding, but almost all of the feedback was positive. Frankly, that carried a long way when I was spending hours every week cleaning & QCing. Just saying thanks once in a while makes a difference.

    So before I become a hypocrite, thanks Foolrulez & all the other scan groups.

  34. GrimKiller46 says:

    While I do agree with the point of this article and we need to protect the subbers/scanlators at all costs, I’m posting to say that this article introduced me to Iris Zero, which I am liking alot! Thanks so much!

  35. i had to put a name says:

    I just checked on Mangafox. They still have your scans. I thought you were asking them to pull them?

  36. Mo says:

    I didn’t realize Manga fox did all this stuff and I’m not member but I’m a returning reader and its kinda hypocritical after reading this post,I’m going to read manga off manga fox but you should really expand your manga on Batoto. Please Excuse my English.

  37. George says:

    When I was introduced to reading manga on the internet, I went to MangFox. It took about a week to find another reader because I did not like the site. I rarely post any thing on a site, but I felt the need to thank you guys, and everyone else that bust their brains translating all of these works for readers like me. I have felt since the first minute of using Manga fox that it was a site made to take advantage of others hobbies and interests. I myself only have gone there when I had no other alternative.
    Over the last year, I have noticed that what was bad with Mangafox, has now gotten worse. I have to also thank you for the link to Batoto, it is easier to use then homeunix, and doesn’t drag alike other online readers, (i am making the assumption they preload the image).
    Thank you all again for your hard work, it is not meaningless to those of us that can’t find manga in their area, other then what the comic stores are lucky enough to carry.

  38. Curious says:

    hey woxxy i was curious how much would a license be for a manga like sora no otoshimono would the price be different for every manga would you happen to have any links sorry for all the questions “Probably enough money to buy tons of licenses and give them to us so we can scanlate legally.”

    • woxxy says:

      As I said in some earlier reply, it’s really hard to get this kind of data. We talked a bit about it in team, and we suspect something like 20k-30k for something like SnO USA license.

      But, getting licenses is pointless if one can just take scanlators’ work and put it up, and make money anyway… and that’s what MF does. If they had licenses, they’d need scanlators to work for them.

  39. Harry says:

    Good read, One thing i’ve realised is allot of people don’t understand that just because they haven’t forked out money from their pockets it doesn’t mean the site in question is not making money from them, it’s like Google, they make billions in turnover every year, mainly from Advertising, yet everyone see’s them as the brave knight fighting against the evil empire that is Microsoft, they don’t realise that Google are collecting vast amounts of data about what we do on the net daily, they probably know more about us than our parents/parters do.

    I used to use MF for majority of my manga needs, but started visiting more scanlaters sites once I saw the difference in quality between other original scans and the over compressed jpg’s on MF, after MangaStream started releasing the big three and fairy tail on their site,

    I mainly now visit the scanalator sites or use, (which strangely enough I found through a post at MF’s forum) I specially like the Manga reader they use, would I be correct in thinking it’s one created by foolrulez? But haven’t completely stopped using MF though they are a neccesary evil if you want to pick up random manga’s or want to find early chapters for manga’s you picked up recently.

    You guys (and all scanalators out there) do a great (and usually thankless) job,) I honestly don’t think I could do it, (even if I was capable of doing it) thank you very much and keep up the good work.

    Btw. FoOlReader is definitely the best reader out there.

    • woxxy says:

      Batoto is not using our manga reader. Their site was created before we released it I think.

      They have nice quality though.

  40. troll says:

    This is quite a shock, i really like mangafox, the way they organize manga, it’s so easy to browse and search for our favorite manga to read. (But, it’s the friggin Noez a££holes who run it. Money monger…

    …no wonder online reader flock there like sheep, (like me, up until now, i still do..cant stop it,
    i hate manga downloads, i cant read it perfectly unless it’s online…

    If you guys really want to bring them down, why not come together and make a mangastream website.
    Release your work there, with every detail, who does this and who does that. (and whatnot)
    with credit page as advertisement tool, am sure mangafox reader would decrease it times… i to late to post here?

  41. Maria. says:

    I totally agree with this!

    I’m from Mangafox but NOEZ(the company that owns Mangafox) is really getting kinda annoying. First, they removed the powers of our volunteer staff to edit/add/remove manga and then next, they refuse to take down the manga that’s being requested to be removed. MF was so much better when it was still a small site. OTL and when the volunteer staff had full power of the site.

    But keep up the good work and screw MF more! =D
    All they do to their sites anyway is extort money and when they don’t need it anymore they just throw it away. Just like what happened in AE. :/

  42. Lukey Pukey says:

    Hello, im sorry to hear that MangaFox is screwing you all over… but its the only site that i find easy to access… if there is another you know of, please prey tell, if i can help out in my own little way i will… i am an ignorant reader from MangaFox… and i’ll hang up from that site, if it helps out even in the most minute way :S

    -Lukey Pukey :D

  43. Kaylix says:

    I agree on what u posted. Mangafox is going too far. Scanlator/translator are the real contributor for the manga spread on the net. Without them as the source, u think mangafox will have anything to display?

    Ignore the jreks from mangafox guys, many ppl will support u.

    (Reading from batoto now after i see the message at one of the manga chapter)

  44. ChaosAxess says:

    Adblock Plus + NoScript + no history saved = no malware. I’ve never had a malware problem with mangafox at all

    I understand that translators wants people to visit their sites for ad purposes etc, but honestly until they put all the manga I want to read in one convenient place with a great search system with sort and a bookmark system, MF is gonna be the choice of most people. The only site I’ve seen with such a thing is Webtoon Live. Which is incidently the only one of two straight from source sites I go to for stuff. That and Easy Going Scans

  45. Waqs says:

    Thanks guys, for always provide million of readers with refreshing manga. Because of you, many people can see and enjoy art. Therefore, I always appreciate your good deeds.
    For the issue, how about negotiating with MF to give more space to you guys?
    Like a link to your site and small talk about the scanlator on the summary page of the manga, a new feature in manga search to search based on scanner, or a new page specially design for you.
    Sorry if it kind of impossible or fool ideas.

  46. Rawan says:

    well I completely agree but you can’t say all readers say the scanlators are greedy , for experienced readers who are well informed , some of us actually go to the scanlators site to read new chapters and send appreciation letters to acknowledge the scnlators , some actually take it further by donating money which is something i tried to do once but failed due to living in a foreign country and not having the same methods of receiving and sending money as the US . I fear all scnlators will stop translating manga at some point or another which is disappointing since reading at the computer for some time every day is the best part of the day , maybe they can add a notice explaining things in few words possible ( since people are so willing to read 100 lengthy chapters but not 10 lines of words ) , and add a link or something , this is all due to the lack of information and pure idiocy of readers , manga fox is a site that’s there , we don’t have to agree with what it’s doing but we can’t blame it for readers stupidity , for example take the series Noblesse , at least once a week I see someone saying on MF we should read the chapters at EG scans and this actually worked , people who never knew that Noblesse was being translated started going to EG scans and reading there , same for Tower of God people started going to Batoto after few forums started to inform users of the original translations .

    I think devoted scanlators should possibly recruit a few loyal readers to post these threads on manga fox , you will be surprised to find that some readers are very loyal and will do anything online since some of them can’t help with the process of translating .

  47. Ezechielle says:


    I think that indeed, readers are not thankfull enough to translators, cleaners and all the people working on translating in general. Unfortunately, I must say that I read an awfully big amount of manga and I don’t always come to scanlator website to say thank or simply hi. But when I see people on forums criticizing (and sometime even insulting) people working on scanlation, I always try to defend the work of the scanlation group. Becaus withour them, I wouldn’t enjoy so much mangas.

    Thing is I think all sites like mangaFox (meaning thos providing manga from scanlation group) should always put a link to the website of the scanlation group just next to the chaptre or the title of the manga. Or even allow people to read mangas after they put a note/word of thanks for the scanlators. Or something like that, I dunno.

    And i couldn’t agree more with what Rawans says: Sometime, asking a little help from your faithfull readers in putting a lil’ words on forums on MangaFox and such could bring a good result!

    “With a little help from my friend” as the Beatle said!

    If i can help you by doing so, I will be very happy to do so! :)

  48. nobekz says:

    now i know how the scans world work’s. foolrulez, thank you for bring me the seitokai, seno no hanayome, spice and wolf…

    i also owe you guys an apologize. though i normally gave credit to the author (like posting “tozen sensei work is amazing blablabla”) i never gave you the credit you deserved for make the author work readable.

    you probably read it often but “keep up the good work, you do us, reader, a good thing”
    again, thank you foolrulez (^.^)

  49. AAA says:

    Sry, if i wrong, but you see.. there are several reasons why mangafox is still getting visitor:
    1) THE MEMBER….I’ll just say it out loud here, most of us here still like to forget what manga we have read but we forget the name and cannot find it right, apparently there are two members from mangafox forum, is pretty much knowledgable about this things…so no wonder there are many new members registering to mangafox forum… only to get these two answer their question. In turn raise mangafox popularity

    2) Remember the “youtube” effect? Let’s say the viral video Nyan cat, the video was posted as a tribute by a youtuber… and it got popular,unfortunately the true creator of the nyan cat itself isnt popular and in fact, he even got death threat because he tried to remove it. Mangafox get the same thing…and this is what makes it more harder to make mangafox down…

    3) The first popular manga site, Onemanga is down, no wonder they got even more popular and famous.

    I dont know if it just a rant or anything, but (to me ) this is a fact, it’s REALLY hard to take mangafox down. But im sure miracle will happen

  50. Waqs says:

    hi hi ^^
    As for me, i choose MF because it’s faster than the other. it’s a large server. simple.
    But lately, i prefer to read in , they have better quality i think though it’s not as fast as MF.